CO129-074 - Lieut. Governor Caine & Sir Robinson - 1859 [6-12] — Page 384

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Mr Cleverly. There was considerable discussion but no compromise that I recollect.

Attorney General. Does this pamphlet contain the whole of the papers handed in to the Executive Council?++

Mr Cleverly. It does not. A variety of enclosures, from A to S are omitted, besides one or two others. No 1, after S, was handed in by Mr Caldwell I think. The whole of the documentary evidence, as well as letters of protest are omitted from that pamphlet.

Attorney General-Did those papers accompany the MS handed to the Council?t

Mr Cleverly. They did.

Attorney General-Was it the intention of the autho- rities when receiving the report to exclude the accompani- ments from the printed part ?

Mr Cleverly. Of course it was desirable the report should be sent in. Naturally it was the intention of the authorities that they should have an opportunity of testing and comparing the report by the documentary evidence.

Attorney General.-Was it the intention of the Com- mission to print all the documents?

Mr Cleverly. At first it was their intention.

Attorney General.--Was it not desirable to have them printed?

Mr Cleverly-It was certainly desirable, and the more so because of the discussion.

Attorney General.--You all concurred in the opinion that there was a great of want of evidence.

Mr Cleverly. We did.

Attorney General.-Would it be possible for any person not a member of the Caldwell Commission to comprehend the report without the documents in relation to it?

Mr Cleverly. No, I do not think it would-Not very clearly-The report is very incomplete as it stands.

Attorney General-It would have been more satisfac- tory had the documents been appended.

tion is said to be by Order,' and 'for general information.. "The Commission states, that, those charges embrace cer- tain accusations,'-recited in the preamble to have been "brought in the Legislative Council, and in official docu. ments, by myself against the Registrar General,' and 'to necessitate an Inquiry-and it directs certain Commis. sioners thereby appointed, to enquire into the same :-and 'all Persons in the Public Service' are charged to be aiding and assisting unto them therein

"I have also perused a Circular Letter under His Excellency's own hand, addressed on the 24th ultimo, to every Official Member of the Legislative Council, except myself:—where. by, such Member is, in effect, required to answer in writing, whether or not certain words therein specified, and bearing directly on the subject matter of the said List of Charges and Commission, were used by me in the Debates of the said Council, in May last, and by way of an 'intemperate attack upon the Registrar General.'

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10. An envelope to the address of Wong Akee from some per son attached to the Magistrates's Office at Sunoan, (no letter.) Answer-I do not recollect.

1. A letter addressed to Wong Akee by the Commandant at Cowloong, regarding Mr Caldwell going over to that place to restore certain articles which had been brought away by Soldiers.

Answer.~I recollect this-It refers to the re- covery of the two collars just mentioned by me.

12. An entry in a book of the sale of 2 Guns to Sye Fong Mok for $58. Another entry of the loan of two Guns to Lan- leong. Answer,—I have no recollection. Another of the payment to Mr Caldwell of 130 on ac- count of Wong Kum Ming. Answer-1 do not recollect. Another of Ts. 232, 5, 6,-or $323, paid by Ying Kwun to Wong Akee for Guns. Answer-I do not recollect.

13. A note written in English, without address, from Beaver

respecting the taking of Coolies to Singapore.

Now, after all that, what is your opinion of Mr Cald- well's report?

Mr Mongan. It is more in conformatory with the Chi- hese opinions.

Attorney General-After hearing the evidence of the Chinese you changed some parts of your evidence did

you not?

Mr Mongan-I was only there during the evidence of ne Chinese witness. He threw no fresh light on my atements. My last evidence only differs as entering hore into detail.

"It appears that no enquiry whatever has been addressed to any of the non-official Members of the Council on the sub- ject; and I can state that I have received none. "With the truth or falsehood of the recitals and averment in the said Commission, I do not mean to trouble this Hon. Council, beyond once more recording my emphatic denial, that the List of Charges,'-by whom prepared I know not-does 'embrace the accusations made by me against the Registrar General;'--a contradiction which, from the 24th May last, the earliest opportunity I had for giving it, down to the present time, has been repeatedly officialised by me,

and received without dissent or observation. "But, I do ask this Hon. Council to admit this my Protest against the above acts of the Government, as being a ma

Attorney General-You know that Mr Caldwell was nifest, deliberate, and persevering violation of its Privileges,onsidered miserably ignorant of the Chinese written cha- solemnly recognised by the Sixteenth of His Excellency's own Standing Orders and Rules for the Legislative Council of Hongkong, which has been approved by Lord- Stanley, the Secretary of State, and is as follows "The Members of Council shall have freedom of speech, and shall not, at any time, be questioned by Government for any thing they have said therein."

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"I desire that this Protest may be recorded."

(Signed) "T. CHISHOLM ANSTEV, M.L.C.,

"H.M. Attorney General."

"Hongkong, 2d August, 1858."

Mr Cleverly--It would have been desirable to have

Mr Cleverly-Certainly. The report was not intended that protest appended of course.* to go without it.

Attorney General.-In many places the minutes are unintelligible without them?

Mr Cleverly.It is intelligible, but incomplete.

Attorney General. My protest for instance, which

ran-

A Minute of Protest from the Attorney General, as sent in to

to the Clerk of Councils, on the 2d August last.

"Minute of Protest of Privilege..

Attorney General.—And now about the printing--You remember a letter sent to me by Dr Bridges on the subject. Mr Cleverly.I remember what you read to Dr Brids ges yesterday.

Attorney General.--This is the letter I refer to,--

1 COLOMIAL SECRETARY'S OFFICE,

(/ SIB,

VICTORIA, HONKONG, 28th July, 1858.

I am directed by His Excellency The Governor to a

eter. Is he capable of reading through a Chinese docu- ent fluently?

Mr Mongan-I think him capable of doing so. I do ot know anything about his qualifications as to the writ- n character. I would not undertake to go through a ain letter myself without the aid of a Chinese teacher. ery few people could.

Attorney General.-You can read off

easy documents, ut not obscure or difficult ones, without a Chinese teacher.

Mr Mongan-Just so.

Attorney General-Have you the least doubt that the bject the person who withdrew those documents was shield Mr Caldwell from well merited disgrace and nishment?

inquire into certain charges against Mr D. R. Caldwell, Registrar General. The pamphlet produced in Court contains the report of that Commission. against Mr Caldwell were published in the Government The charges Gazette,—the article in the Friend of China charged as libel refers to those charges.

Cross-examined by the Attorney General.-Was not some communication made to the Commission-a request that the report should be ready for signature by the then outgoing Mail?

Mr Cleverly. No.

Attorney General.--Was not that report prepared, voted and signed under circumstances of haste?

Mr Cleverly.-No.

Court.--Do you consider that the report was made in a hurry.

Mr Cleverly.-Not at all my Lord.

Attorney General-Do you remember a meeting of the Executive Council at which you were requested to have the report ready for despatch by the outgoing Mail.

Mr Cliverly.--Yes-I think the Mail went two days after that meeting of the Council.

for presentation at that Council meeting?

Attorney General-Well, was not the report prepared

Mr Cleverly.It is possible the report was signed o be presented to Council.

Attorney General.-Was that report prepared before you were asked by the Council what hour it would be ready?

Mr Cleverly-Yes.

Attorney General--Was that Council specially sum- moned to receive the report?

Mr Cleverly.No.

The Council were sitting, and it

being ready they received it.

Attorney General.-Was the report voted by a majority or the result of a compromise?

Mr Cleverly. The report speaks for itself. Attorney General.-No it does not. Explain what oc- curred.

Mr Cleverly-I put the motion to the members of the Mr Mongan.I think it was to get off Ma-chow Wong, Commission that this be the report. Discussion ensued t Mr Caldwell,

but there was no particular compromise, except as to the Attorney General-My Lord, I wish that taken down proved by the signatures.

last clause. That that be the report was unanimous, as

THIRD DAY.

Attorney General.-How was that result arrived at? Charles St George Cleverly. Sworn, 'deposed, to Was there not a compromise? Was it not agreed among

at once, but special objections should be forwarded after- wards?t

My attention is drawn to a publication in the Hongkong knowledge the receipt of your letter No. 1, of this day questions of the Acting Attorney General, that he yourselves that to prevent loss of time it should be signed

Government Gazette of Saturday last, the 31st ultimo, of a Warrant of Commission bearing date the 20th May last, and having a List of Charges' appended. The publica

• This was the protest impounded: framed, it will be seen, on letter to Dr Bridges of date 24th May 1858, printed in the appendix, inf

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Surveyor General for Hongkong on the 15th of May 08, and was appointed Chairman of a Commission y

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